by Rynski on Jul.21, 2009, under immigrants, life, odd pueblo, snappy or crappy

Odd Pueblo: Snappy or crappy?

This fun Odd Pueblo feature asks the audience to rate a trend, topic or sighting of something around town: is it snappy or crappy?

The last snappy or crappy, multicolored architecture, got mixed reviews, although many folks agreed that some Old Pueblo architecture is wholly on the crap list.

Here’s another one that could straddle the crap list: bilingual signs

Sign in Target parking lot/Photo Ryn Gargulinski

Bilingual sign in Target parking lot/Photo Ryn Gargulinski

While it’s very nice to know that “arroyo chico” could translate to “bike path where people get hit by cars that go above 15 mph,” and “centro” means downtown, the signs also cater to folks who don’t want to bother to learn English.

Yes, I know, there is no national language. But there should be. And yes, it should be English.

At least the bilingual signs are less crappy than the signs only in Spanish, like a 7-11 billboard on Stone Avenue near Grant Road.

That sign may make us want to boycott the convenience store altogether, although some days we may honestly crave a Slurpee.

What do you think?
Bilingual and Spanish-only signs are:
a. Snappy. They expand my linguistic horizons and add character to the city.
b. Crappy. I would rather learn a foreign language by choice, not force.
c. I really don’t care because I speak 52 languages and understand all signs.
d. ????? No habla English.

wb-logolil14

:, , , , , , , ,

71 Comments for this entry

  • azmouse
    July 21st, 2009 on 7:08 am

    Crappy!
    I’ve never seen any bilingual signs anywhere. What next?!?

    Reply
    • Rynski
      July 21st, 2009 on 7:11 am

      You’re back, AZMouse!! Yaay. Were you at the Celtic fest in Flagstaff?
      Thanks for chiming in on bilingual signs - I see them all over…maybe I note them because they annoy me so.

      Reply
      • azmouse
        July 21st, 2009 on 7:38 am

        I am back from the celtic festival. Had a wonderful time and tons of fun. In the eighties during the day, and low fifties at night…nice and cool :)
        I’ll send you some pictures. (have to get them developed, then scan em.)

        I cannot recall seeing one of these signs anywhere. Maybe I’m not paying attention.

        Reply
  • leftfield
    July 21st, 2009 on 7:18 am

    I’m sure this one will bring thme out of the woodwork because it crosses the line from pure aesthetics into the sociopolitical.  Posters should remember that the people of America represent a mere 4% of the total world population.  Of this small percentage, there is a very vocal, but similarly miniscule, population who seem to believe the numbers are reversed and that the rest of the world should dance to our tune, wherever we decide to grace the rest of our world with our presence.  Some call it patriotism, I call it the myth of American exceptionalism.   

    Reply
    • Rynski
      July 21st, 2009 on 7:27 am

      Leftfield - you make a grand point that the people of America represent a dinky portion of the world population and some feel “the rest of the world should dance to our tune.” However, shouldn’t folks dance to the American tune when they are - let’s say - in America?
       

      Reply
      • leftfield
        July 21st, 2009 on 7:40 am

        Well, yes - but I think the American tune should be representative of everybody who lives here and inclusive rather than exclusive.  I think being annoyed when we read language we do not understand is the same as being annoyed when we hear language we do not understand.  It is at some level an attempt to control a world that is confusing and frightening and, ultimately, outside of our control. 

        Reply
      • azmouse
        July 21st, 2009 on 7:41 am

        Hi leftfiel,
        I have to agree with Ryn. If I was in another country, then I’d need to learn their language in order to get by, or read their street signs.

        Reply
  • radmax
    July 21st, 2009 on 7:18 am

    Mornin’ Rynski! The only thing that bothers me about bilingual signs is the cost-seems redundant. Those kilometer signs on I-19 bug me more…when did we switch to the metric system? Can’t believe English is still not our national language.

    Reply
  • pitchfork
    July 21st, 2009 on 7:44 am

    Declaring a national language is a little tricky, even though I agree with the basic idea.  A long time ago in France, they declared that all English-isms like ‘faire du jogging’ or ‘jouer du golf’ (to go jogging, play golf) would be banned from all dictionaries because they weren’t truly French.  It made sense except that language is constantly changing and since common words like ‘internet’ or ‘hamburger’ give us a leg up to find common grounds and are so ingrained in their culture, it was a stupid idea.  Now think of all the French words that we use that are considered part of our language.
    A French exchange student we hosted back in high school told me that they call our version of English “American” and not English.  She told me that Belgium has three national languages (French, Flemmish and German) so their movie theaters usually have three different subtitles (they all included English too).  Besides, considering how bad our own English speakers actually learn to read, write and speak our own language, I’m not going to complain.   So I say ’snappy’ and it gives us some international appeal!

    Reply
    • Rynski
      July 21st, 2009 on 8:00 am

      Hi Pitchfork - yes, I remember the anti-English trend while learning French, and how they would go out of their way to create a term with 502 words just so they wouldn’t have to say things like: computer.
      It is a very tricky one, for sure. I enjoy “borrowed” words and phrases, so those would need to stick around.

      Reply
  • Ado
    July 21st, 2009 on 7:53 am

    O.K. , my grandparents emigrated here from Slovenia. They learned the language, became U.S. citizens, and melted into the American society. Along the way, as part of their education, they learned to read signs written in English, which happens to be the language spoken here. They never cried about having to read signs in this country that were not posted in their native Slovenian language. It has become an absurd f-n joke the way Mexicans are crying to have everything in this country posted in dual languages. Just take a trip down through Sonora,Mex. and see how many signs are posted for the benefit of the English speaking touristas. When we are finished posting all the signs in both Spanish and English, won’t we be making all those French and German and Italian and Russian and Chinese residents of this country feel left out and unwanted? Oh that’s right, those emigrants took it upon themselves to learn the language of the country they emigrated to. Why is it the Mexicans feel so special? Maybe that’s a characteristic being 3b amazesinstilled in “The Race”?

    Reply
  • Ado
    July 21st, 2009 on 7:55 am

    Last line amended… “Maybe that’s a characteristic being instilled in “the Race”?

    Reply
  • A.Farley
    July 21st, 2009 on 8:02 am

    What bugs me is what if the sign reads “Bridge Out” in spanish and I don’t know what it sez and I keep on Trucking thru the roadway, careeming off the bridge because I can’t read the sign.

    Reply
    • Ado
      July 21st, 2009 on 8:09 am

      Well Sir, If you are motoring in Sonora, perhaps you should have picked up a pamphlet translating Spanish Roadsigns to English? And, what about all those international picto-graphic roadsigns we already have ? I believe the Mexican government also uses them.

      Reply
    • Rynski
      July 21st, 2009 on 8:10 am

      …and then the ambulance comes and the dang thing says “ambulancia” so you’re not sure what it is and why it’s there so you continue to lie there and bleed. yes, a. farley, you bring up a valid point on how these signs could threaten our very lives.

      Reply
  • Karen Nelson
    July 21st, 2009 on 8:15 am

    Wow… some passionate responses! Like RadMax, I have mixed feelings. I, personally, like the learning experience of having things translated for me! (Although, since when does “Arroyo chico” mean “Bikeway Route”!??), but I don’t like the waste of resources it requires. And I feel it is not good that we cater only to Spanish-speakers and not the multitude of other languages I hear when I head to La Jolla in the summer!
    As far as the kilometer signs. I love them! I am very angry that our country did not convert to the metric system like the rest of the world a very long time ago!! It would all be so much simpler, and it would be one less difference between us all.

    Reply
    • Rynski
      July 21st, 2009 on 8:23 am

      but the waist size, karen, the waist size!

      Reply
      • Karen Nelson
        July 21st, 2009 on 8:44 am

        Let it go! We would all be well used to bigger numbers by now and it wouldn’t matter! Plus, it’s only a number! To be considered healthy, a woman should have a waist circumference of less than 35 inches or 89 centimeters! Just think, you could have a waist measurement as high as 88 and still be healthy!

        Reply
        • Rynski
          July 21st, 2009 on 8:49 am

          Ok, then i like it. but i still won’t be sure if i’m buying a gallon of milk (haha)…you should blog about “only a number” since so many folks are hung up on them. not that i know any folks hung up on them….

          Reply
          • Karen Nelson
            July 21st, 2009 on 10:15 am

            Ha! Maybe I will!  Sometimes numbers are important, though! And they give us goals and warning signs and keep us in line (like speed limits! - which is a whole other pet peeve of mine!). I think relative numbers are what is important for our individual health. But how did I get here?! Thanks for the suggestion… I’ll put it on my list!

  • azmouse
    July 21st, 2009 on 9:53 am

    I still think the signs are not appropriate.
    I was at Auto Zone last week and this lady in front of me was yelling at the cashier because he didn’t speak spanish. I know enough spanish to know she was cussing at him. It was insane. He started getting defensive and I don’t blame him. She was out of line.

    Reply
    • Karen Nelson
      July 21st, 2009 on 10:20 am

      Incredulous! She was obviously not taught tolerance. Sad…

      Reply
      • azmouse
        July 21st, 2009 on 10:36 am

        Yes, and considering she was here, in the United States, but she expected workers here should know HER language?!?! Seemed backwards…

        Reply
    • Tami
      July 21st, 2009 on 11:28 am

      azmouse-
      I work in the service industry and people get frustrated with me all the time because I don’t speak Spanish (or enough Spanish). Usually, they will bring someone who speaks enough English to get by, but sometimes I get “Habla Espanol?” There are also times when I use my limited Spanish and people are grateful. It probably also makes them think twice about talking smack about me in Spanish ;)

      Reply
  • Tami
    July 21st, 2009 on 10:47 am

    c. I really don’t care because I speak 52 languages and understand all signs.
    Okay, so I don’t speak 52 languages but, it doesn’t bother me as long as it’s in English. The only part that really bothers me is that the English version should be on top. Just my opinion, though.  Now, if it was printed in the Wingdings font, I might be a little miffed ;)
    Ryn, I have a great submission for your “snappy or crappy” next time :)

    Reply
  • Nombre
    July 21st, 2009 on 11:58 am

    Arroyo Chico means Small Wash not the Spanish translation for bike path.
    Arroyo Chico is the name of the bike path not the Spanish translation.
    Just like Palo Verde is the name of a street, the sign does not mean you’re about to enter into a Green Stick, or Tanque Verde means you’re driving on a Green Tank.
    The Rio Nuevo project was simply named Rio Nuevo it does not mean people working for Rio Nuevo are working for the New River. I’m pretty sure there isn’t anybody suffering because the name of the project is in Spanish.
    The sign in question is simply the name of a bike path not a sign informing people in Spanish first and THEN in English.
    I’m yet to find a sign in town that says “Cuidado con el hielo en el puente” and underneath “Watch for ice on bridge.”

    Reply
    • Rynski
      July 21st, 2009 on 12:33 pm

      THANK YOU for clearing that up. Wow. I automatically assumed it was bilingual since I see other signs that are. Peligro. Centro. Glad I didn’t go to Mexico and ask where the bike path was…

      Reply
  • Jane
    July 21st, 2009 on 12:10 pm

    Does no one think it laughable that the sign pictured is not a bilingual sign? The bikeway runs along the arroyo chico, (the NAME of the waterway, even though it probably has little to no water in it).  Thats the name, it happens to be in Spanish.  It isn’t a sign that says “Arroyo Chico/ Little Wash” (which is the translation). So…how is this relevant to the question?  How is this catering to Spanish speakers? It was probably called arroyo chico 300 years before anyone around here spoke English.

    My answer:
    This Blog: Crappy
    Get some relevant examples.

    And incidentally, those of you who have visited foreign countries (I’m guessing it isn’t many by the ignorance levels I’m detecting) were probably wandering around whining about how no one speaks English and didn’t bother to learn a word. What a bunch of hypocrites.

    Reply
  • Jane
    July 21st, 2009 on 1:04 pm

    Well that was a bit over the top, sorry. But it is enormously frustrating to hear people complain about something, and somehow be ignorant of what that something really is.

    Tucson was part of Mexico until very recently, there are families here that were here before that time. It is part of Tucson’s heritage. So if we have bilingual signs, how does that hurt anyone? It’s not like they have a disclaimer at the bottom that says “These signs are put here so people can be lazy and not learn English”. Its probably more for tourist dollars from snowbirds who think its cute to see “southwestern” things than for anything else.

    Reply
    • azmouse
      July 21st, 2009 on 1:42 pm

      You’re right, it doesn’t hurt anyone. Neither does, “Press one for English”, but some of us still believe the old saying, ‘When in Rome, do as the Romans’.
      I’m very proud of all of Tucson’s great heritage and diverse culture and I love that I was born here.
      I expect when I’m in Italy, I need to speak italian, etc.
      Sorry if that makes me sound ignorant but it is only my opinion and when people don’t like others’ opinions and resort to insultive behavior because they don’t agree, I think that is ‘enormously frustrating’.

      Reply
    • Patrick Quinn
      August 3rd, 2009 on 7:47 am

      I love the fact that people fail to realize that the English language is actually mostly made up of French (at least 30 percent) and German words.

      Reply
  • bjay100
    July 21st, 2009 on 2:33 pm

    I’m of Mexican descent, and I do believe people who live here do need to learn English.  However, we are pretty close to the border and do get a lot of temporary visitors.  I do appreciate signs in both languages that pertain to safety.
     
    On that same note, when I’m driving in Mexico, I appreciate signs such as “one way” in English, lol.  Although, like in the case of my Spanish-speaking grandma…she still would drive the wrong way.  At least in Nogales, Sonora there are some bilingual signs for safety as well as advertisements which I do appreciate since I never really learned Spanish.  Plus, when I shopped down there, I could usually find someone to help me in English (after I get the “what the hell, you don’t know Spanish?” look after they assume I speak it).
     
    HOWEVER, I don’t think we need to be wasting money printing up forms and such in both English and Spanish - especially when they are for citizens or for people who intend to work here.

    Reply
  • radmax
    July 21st, 2009 on 2:40 pm

    Rynski-how come you have to explain yourself to so many people? Geez, I got it right away that your ‘translation’ was not literal. You and Evans were right when you said the new citizen was all about opinion. Some of ‘em pretty screwy.

    Reply
  • ricky lee
    July 21st, 2009 on 2:49 pm

    I am just glad we don’t have any more of that harsh archaic mushmouth garbage that all of the real natives of this country spoke before they were put down like a bunch of rabbid animals, good thing we took care of those savages. now if we could only do something about the signs we don’t understand. are those signs immune to smallpox and whiskey I wonder, hmmmmm…….

    Reply
  • leftfield
    July 21st, 2009 on 7:34 pm

    I told you this would bring ‘em out.

    Reply
  • erniemccray
    July 21st, 2009 on 11:46 pm

    English-only kind of conversations make me feel ill at ease, to the highest of degrees. It reminds me of Tucson back in the 40’s and 50’s when I was thrust into the “less than” category of society. From such experiences I wouldn’t wish second class citizenship on anyone.
    Here in the early moments of the 21st Century we should be about embracing our diversity, about getting along. If we are really concerned about people learning our language then we have to join those who address such needs in the community - and we have to understand a truth: large numbers of Latinos in the Old Pueblo, Mexican Americans, speak and read and write and do commerce in English everyday.
    We need, for the wellbeing of us all, to be about “the change” that we, as a people, have been going on and on about over the past months. Harping about and looking at a segment of society as “beneath” us, lessens us as human beings. These Citizen blogs could be an immeasurable means of reaching out to each other.

    Reply
  • bjay100
    July 22nd, 2009 on 12:05 am

    My dad gets annoyed when he sees street or business signs that just put random Spanish words together like “Rita Verde” (Green Rita).  I guess it could mean someone’s last name or a green part in an area or a green view.  But there are others that just don’t make sense lol.  Like the Rillito River (river river) - there’s the ultimate bilingual name, ha.
     

    Reply
  • kj
    July 22nd, 2009 on 1:56 am

    I’m pretty sure that sign doesn’t particularly count as a bilingual sign, considering that “arroyo chico” would be “small wash”… nothing to do with a bikeway, really. The best one is “Barazza Aviation”, I think.
    Just today I was thinking about things to show friends which are going to be visiting town, and all the Spanish signs were something that I was oddly proud of. There’s that sense of living somewhere ethnically richer, delightfully tacky. Like Hooters but more charming.

    Reply
  • kynn
    August 3rd, 2009 on 5:34 am

    Okay, this is real dumb, Ryn.
    Maybe you were just trying to troll out all the racist nativists with their “THIS IS AMERICA SPEAK AMERICAN” nonsense, but c’mon. Are you really that illiterate that you think “Arroyo Chico” is a Spanish translation for “bike path” and not the name of the bike path?
    Look, here’s a site you can bookmark:  http://babelfish.yahoo.com/translate_txt  When those scary, unfamiliar Spanish words come along, you can just type them in there and maybe spare yourself from looking like some sort of racist lunatic in the future.
    I usually don’t believe in biting the hand that feeds me — or in this case, one of the people who has brought us the Citizen site — but this is just beyond irresponsible. Even by blogging standards.

    Reply
  • Anonymous
    August 3rd, 2009 on 6:38 am

    You think this is bad?  There’s a road in the NW of Tucson called La Canada.  We live in America, people!  It’s ridiculous that we have a road named after a foreign country, much less in that country’s language, French!

    Reply
  • Patrick Quinn
    August 3rd, 2009 on 7:45 am

    When are you going to post a bilingual sign? Cause I assume your fully aware that’s the name of the bike pat.
     
    If your not a fan of the bilengual…you probably shouldn’t live in TUCSON.
     
    Since you know..Tucson isn’t english…

    Reply
  • Michael Baggett
    August 3rd, 2009 on 7:59 am

    You’re all a bunch of idiots. This sigin is not bi-lingual, Arroyo Chico is a proper name, it doesn’t mean bike path. This is the name of said bike path - idiots I tell you.

    Reply
  • oh wow
    August 3rd, 2009 on 8:33 am

    aaaahhahahaahahahhahahahahhaahahah

    Reply
  • Drew
    August 3rd, 2009 on 8:33 am

    Narrow minded people! The world is not America.
    I agree that when foreigners move into the US, they should try to assimilate the American culture; but so should we. The difference in cultures are so wonderful; why not enjoy them instead of fixate on how much they “annoy” you.
    Besides, if we start working up this whole “you are in American soil, you should only speak/write/think in American” we will shoot ourselves in the foot.
    Where should we start? By changing Los Angeles to The Angels? What about Las Vegas? Or all other cities/towns with Las/Los/El in their names? California would be so screwed with all the changes.
    Want it or not, this is part of the American culture as well. Embrace it.

    Reply
  • You Suck
    August 3rd, 2009 on 8:39 am

    You morons make me embarrassed to be white.  Please do a little research and be a lot more sensitive in the future.  Arroyo Chico is the proper name of the bike path, not a Spanish translation of “Bike route”.

    Reply

1 Trackback or Pingback for this entry

Leave a Reply

Or you can log in or register to streamline commenting.

Looking for something?

Use the form below to search this blog:

Still not finding what you're looking for? Drop a comment on a post or contact us so we can take care of it!

Visit our friends!

A few highly recommended friends...

Archives

All entries, chronologically...